Goodness… what are they thinking?!
Howard, Gordon and Alan on air talking about how the CC have cleared them of all wrongdoing! They haven’t!!!
They published this statement on their website.
“After a thorough investigation of Revelation Foundation over nine months the Charity Commission has identified no loss or misappropriation of charitable funds by the trustees. The day to day operations of Revelation Foundation have continued throughout, without interference from the Charity Commission and no criticism has been made of programme content or production. The Charity Commission has noted the legal and accounting complexities of Revelation Foundation’s activities in the UK and Spain and has appointed an accountant to act as an interim manager to work with the trustees to resolve issues relating to the legal and accounting procedures of Revelation Foundation and its associated Spanish companies. The trustees have nothing to hide and welcome this appointment and will draw upon the expertise of the accountant and his team to ensure the public have full assurance as to the work of the trust.”
They have seriously jumped the gun on this one. They also went on air talking in depth about the letter they had from the CC. It was pretty clear that the CC have not cleared them, as they have a) not said they have, this is clear from the show, although they have spun it well and b) the CC have appointed an interim manager.
http://www.revelationtv.com/programmes/episode/the-late-show872866
They even acknowledged in the show that the CC haven’t actually said they have cleared them. They also acknowledge that just because the CC haven’t commented on the charities fundraising tactics etc, doesn’t mean that they have been given a clean bill of health. They just glossed over that though.
I’ve written this as a response to their questionable claims regarding being cleared.
Dear Howard/Gordon/Alan
I watched last nights show on the internet. I must admit you are good at the spin!
Do you not realise that the appointment of a manager is a serious thing?
You have in no way been cleared of wrongdoing! The CC would have actually said so if this were the case. Just because they haven’t made reference to the things they are investigating doesn’t mean you are cleared!!!
The CC don’t send an interim manager with no cause. They only do so for one of two reasons…
- There is or has been misconduct or mismanagement in the administration of the charity; or
- It is necessary or desirable to act to protect the charity’s property.
This shows the findings are not necessarily in your favour!!!
How could the CC clear you of wrongdoing when you have lied to viewers for years regarding 21st Century TV Ltd. People have donated based on lies and deception. The CC cannot sanction that and will at least advise that steps need to be taken to make things clear for viewers to know exactly what happens with 21st Century TV. I believe you have a donor currently trying to get his donations back because he donated based on untruths.
The other thing that you clearly don’t seem to grasp is that the appointment of an interim manager generally goes alongside the investigation. This doesn’t necessarily mean the CC have concluded anything, just that they feel further steps are required.
The way you talk of how it’s not worth going after me… you almost sound like you believe it!
You have threatened me with a solicitor before, why not now??? You are well known for your use of the courts.
Is it perhaps because you know that you lied about me?
Or maybe because you know what you have been up to and more importantly, I do too!
Howard, just come clean! It’s not over and there is no way that I’m going to be silenced by your false claims.
Perhaps I should go to the secular press? They would have a field day.
I wanted us to do this “in-house”, but you seem determined to spit on the truth.
What am I to do with you Howard? All I wanted was dialogue when I sent my original correspondence to the trustees. I was even willing to help you come clean in a way that you could even have saved face.
I reached out to you all at RTV, but you saw me as a threat instead of a friend.
Sadly, you’ve now made me and others a threat and we are not going away.
God vs Christianity 
I wonder what the reaction of the CC will be when they learn that Rev TV have misrepresented them, both live on TV and on their web page. Conder and co are now so mired in untruths and deception, it is difficult to see how they can survive this intact.
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I believe that you have no idea what Neville could do. My censored comments were neither abusive, insulting, deeming nor in anyway derogatory. On the other hand in the guise of “anonymous” neither do they carry and weight. Their purpose was directed at Neville, and so whether he posted them or not is irrelevant. I am simply testing the man. My reply above was directed at Neville and so he is able to post if he pleases. What is not clear is just how selective Neville is in what he chooses to post, and what he chooses to ignore. Then he comes onto your response and infers that he censored my comments because they were offensive. It is a plain straight forward lie.
I have no intentions of directing myself to you Sarah. I have read your own posts and all the material you have provided. I can read well enough, and unlike Ian I do understand what you have said. I would encourage you to take Neville seriously when he tells you that by contrast to yourself he is experienced in dealing with online realities. I do not say that to complement him, but to specifically afford myself the opportunity of saying that he is an arch manipulator.
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For your own peace of mind Sarah you may not understand that all public commissions are required to report in a judicial way. They have to report as though for evidential purposes. I can tell you that no public body, reporting with a mind to the public interest, will exonerate any party in the direct way you believe they do. Revelation TV are correct in asserting that if they had been found to have dealt dishonestly in the discharge of their statutory duties, as Trustees, then there would have been a very different outcome to the one that has taken place.
Similarly the appointment of Interim Mangers by the Charity Commission does not in anyway reflect on the honesty, integrity or ethics of the charity itself, its officers and its appointees. In all such cases of appointment the Charity Commission is obligated to give its reasons. In this instance the principle reason given was in order to protect the assets of the Charity itself. There has been no issue raised about the individual conduct or ethical aspirations of the men.
Unless you learn how to separate what you are doing into men and mission, law and legality – you will simply cloud the waters, and make it impossible for anyone to grasp a clear right minded understanding as to where truth lies. If we are talking about apostasy and doctrinal truth then that is a matter of staying it plainly and leaving the men out of it as far as possible.
Finally I would offer you this link which you can read through at your own leisure. Needless to say Srah, anything that I have said, or will say to you is already public knowledge by reason of my own intention. I lay no right of the man, and am happy to put myself in the way of the harm of others. I know how to deal with men in Christ whosoever they may be.
This is a post I have made three hours ago onto Revelation TV as an opening comment on their announcement. Don’t assume Sarah that everything is as plain as it seems. It is possible to tell a man to his face that he is a lair, and he will still go away believing that he is telling the truth even though he knows that he has lied. This is not mere psychology. It is an instrument of the Lord to snare men into their own end of days.
“I have been watching the progress of these events as per the Charity Commissions investigation. My interest is personal and therefore anything I say on this subject is an expression of my personal and private views. Just to clarify my position. I am interested in truth as per addressing the numerous claims made in private, and more recently in public that the Condor family are essentially dishonest. I am also addressing the claims made in public that Revelation TV have moved into an apostate position regarding who they sell airtime to, with the obvious and clear concern that this would have, were the beneficiary of the airtime an heretic or an apostate. Wherever possible I will be transparent as to my source, however, this may not always be possible due to a need to protect individuals from public hate.
Finally, I can say from the outset that specific individuals have made use of historical circumstances to facilitate the furtherance of their own religious views. They have latched onto the reasonable concerns of some people, and they have conspired to drive a campaign of opposition to the Condor family personally, and Revelation TV representatively. If these brethren had been given a true appointment by the Father in heaven to expose Revelation TV regarding its commercial activity in selling airtime to alleged apostates, then their few words and their prayers would have been sufficient to have achieved a good outcome. In the end their continued vitriol demonstrates that in reality they have no mandate from God. Therefore let that which God permits be permitted.
We live in a time when due to the internet there are many supposed prophetic voices. In reality the overwhelming number of them are charlatans, biting at the heels of others who of themselves do not claim such a mantle of God, neither do they reckon themselves perfect. Yet these Watchmen on the Walls reckon that they have an exceptional gift by which they are able to judge others. Would to God the Father that they had such a calling. If they had they would know how to lay waste to pretentious claims, by being hidden in their endeavours. In truth however, such as these are as much interested in their own publicity, as they insist that those who they select for their special attentions, need to be publicly exposed and humiliated.
If the Father Himself will not pull down a house, then neither can any man pull down that house.”
We will see if they moderate this into visibility. You need a greater wisdom in dealing with what you know is true, in order to separate what you cannot yet see.
https://www.facebook.com/rhomphaeam
https://blog.ichabod.eu/bite-devour/neville-stephens/
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Hi Ichabod
I’m trying to understand… are you suggesting that I should have said a few words and then just prayed?
I understand where you are coming from, but I disagree on this occasion. If a person committed murder and you were a witness, would you stop at telling the first person you told?
Normally you then give a statement and then further statements in court and the authorities take their role and make sure there is consequence for the crime.
I wouldn’t put myself in the positions of judge, jury and executioner. I’m someone who has been lied about because I questioned the morality of their fundraising tactics.
I know that the charity commission like all government bodies is restricted as to what it can do, but they have very clearly not concluded their investigation according to what was read on air yesterday and their statement regarding the interim manager is consistent with this.
I have emailed the charity commission to ask if they have or haven’t concluded the investigation. I will let everyone know when I have confirmation
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Perhaps you misread what I have said. Or perhaps you are taking things personally. The comment about a few words and prayer Sarah was made to Revelation TV. It seems unlikely that you didn’t see this, but I do question why you need to ask the question. You are not the one who complained to them, so why take it as though I am writing about yourself? You may well be a visible participant, but who knows who else has raised concerns. You yourself have disclosed in the last fews days that a friend gave £200K to Revelation TV or one of its subsidiaries. Such an amount of money would not ordinarily have been a momentary decision. It would have to have been decided upon with Revelation TV’s involvement. No one gives such a gift with no attempt at establishing its purpose and any qualification that may have gone with it. If your concern for this Charity was so great why did you not express that fact to your friend and save them the distress of having given so much money. On the other hand if we chase after our friends money we may be thought to be chasing after our own conscience.
Is that an unkind thing to say? Treena clearly believes that all my words are unkind, or to be more specific, offensive. I have to wonder whether that is just an emotional understanding or whether it is grounded in discernment. Given that Treena is an expert on emotions I took the test she has posted on her Facebook page where were are told that emotional intelligence can be measured. I was thinking of inviting Satan himself to take the test but then realised that he would get the highest score of all. Yet he is a psychopath and a mad man. So one would have to ask where the value is in assessing truth by an emotional means. When I took the test I scored 150, which means that I got every part of the test correct. Now ask yourselves brethren, does that make me a psychopath and a madman, or does it simply mean that the test is flawed and our understanding of emotions is similarly flawed. Any occultist could take that test and, without a single point of difficulty be pronounced highly emotionally intelligent. This is because any occultist worth his salt has an ability to read physiognomic indicators in every persons face.
If we place our confidence in emotions we are simply charlatans and sadly that is what many do. Get over yourselves brethren you cannot deal with spiritual matters emotionally.
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Sorry Ichabod, I must have misread. I was a bit tired last night.
As for the friend who donated the large sum, I met them after they had donated. If I had known them before, I would have advised against it.
You do have a bluntness in the way you write and a deliberate way of provoking thought. I can see why some may find it hard, but at the same time, we need provocation sometime so we can assess our own thoughts and behaviour.
In regards to the test on emotional intelligence, no disrespect to Treena, but I do agree with your conclusions. I would agree that psychopaths and cult leaders would likely score very highly. I bet Gordon Pettie would score full marks. He seems to be the brains behind the deception, but comes across as a saint.
Shockingly, I’ve also just done the test and got full marks!!! Perhaps I’m also a psychopath? Lol
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Thanks Sarah, that is very gracious of you to say so. Just to be fair to Treena I don’t suppose she is suggesting that emotional empathy is of itself a benefit to spiritual understanding. Of course some brethren cannot make a distinction between their feelings and their true mind in Christ. In some ways that problem (which both men and women may experience) can form the basis for many of the problems we find in the ministries which we are minded to judge righteously. It is never a simple matter of doctrine either, because doctrine is much easier to lay hold of. It is more a matter of what emotionally motivates us, and how that feeds into our justification for the things we say and do. Only an objective mind observes these things, and to that extent we can address particular individuals and their problems if we ourselves are objective. One thing is very definite. If we allow ourselves the luxury of treating others in a shabby way, or else supporting unrighteousness then we will compromise our calling, and in the end other men will be given our possessions to have charge over. I think Gordon may be alluding to that in his comment.
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I think Treena will likely agree that there is no real link between emotional intelligence and spiritual understanding.
What you say regarding motives is very true. Sadly, greed and power have been a big part of the story with Revelation TV.
As for my own motives in this, I guess truth is what I’m looking for. My personal reputation and families reputation were tarnished by Howards false allegations, but this isn’t really about clearing our names anymore, I’ve already done that.
As you rightly say “we are minded to judge righteously”. In order for Christians to do that, we must have the information to make an informed and righteous judgement.
Regardless of any potential outcome regarding the CC, people need to know that they have been deceived. We will get the message out one way or another. I would rather avoid mainstream press if possible, but perhaps it might be needed?
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Well Ichabod you have managed to put down Sarah, Nev and just about everyone else who expresses a biblical view… I assume myself and Rob are included as well. It must be really satisfying to be so superior!
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Treena I can’t wait to let you know that I am in touch with all of my feeling and so appear to be better placed than yourself with a score of 150. Wow Jesus must really love me now!
Just to say it Treena the above comment is a putting someone down. Nothing I have said however is in that class. Thanks for your concern however.
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My position on this has been clear from the beginning.
The Charity Commission’s main concerns in and charity investigation are:
1. Has money donated to charity been used for non charitable purposes.
2. Have charitable assets been put at risk.
In relation to #1 I don’t think that ever happened in this case. Money paid to 21st Century TV was never charitable. There was never any evidence of money paid to the Revelation Foundation being used for non charitable purposes. Payments to related persons or related commercial companies is OK provided the correct types of contract are in place.
In relation to #2 this probably comes down to physical assets as the foundation has very little in the bank. It may be that most of the physical assets (equipment presumably) belongs to 21st Century Television Ltd.
It strikes me that most of the complaints are about misrepresentation in fundraising. This is not something that the Charity Commission get involved in. There is a separate Fundraising Standards Board with its own voluntary code of conduct, but as the Revelation Foundation have not signed up to it, it has no powers to look into it.
I think what will come out of this is that some of the trustees will have to be replaced. It is difficult to be a trustee of a charity if you have business contracts with the charity. That aspect is probably what I object to. If a charity is getting money from the public how does it decide who to spend it with? Do they spend it with companies owned by some of the trustees or do they put it out to tender? What has happened here is sometimes called “founders syndrome” where a family usually set up a fund after someone dies,it gets bigger and then the trustees end up on the payroll or involved commercially with the charity. There comes a point where that has to stop and it should have stopped a while ago in the case of the Revelation Foundation. If it had, then this situation would never have occurred.
However, this does not excuse the behaviour of people involved with Revelation TV recently. That is a whole different matter entirely. It could have been handled so much better.
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Stop your ridiculous assault on REVTV just because you lost your job, GET OVER IT! All you are doing is fanning the flames of gossip and judgmental hypocrisy. Move on and let the CC decide if there’s any truth in your weak ‘allegations.’ This whole episode of yours isn’t in the Christian Spirit of love, but hate and you’re only looking for readers to your otherwise pathetic little ‘blog.’
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What? I didn’t lose my job – I quit!!! This was 11 years ago and was on my terms! I was a volunteer for 6 months and then got a wage that barely gave me a sandwich after my train fare was paid!!! I did this out of love for Howard and I supported the original vision, which RTV no longer resembles.
Have you read my first article? I’m doing this, because firstly, it’s true. Secondly, Howard told the most horrendous lies about me and my family.
Where is the judgmental hypocrisy? I’m getting my right of reply, but the difference is that I’m telling the truth, unlike Howard who lies. I suggest you see the article on howie’s bar for proof that “Howie” is very happy to lie about anything he doesn’t want people to know about. The indisputable proof is all there. You just have to stop with the blind belief in “Howie”.
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Hi Sarah!
Truly, there are none so blind as they who do not WANT to see…
In the final analysis, those who refuse to hear the truth and choose to believe the lie bring condemnation only on themselves before the Lord!
Keep strong in Him!
Rob.
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Crumbs – the emotional test was just a laugh…. I think my daughter put it up on facebook originally. No deep and meaningful intended!
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Andy , Might I ask what spirit you are with, in the way you have attacked Sarah, doesn’t read much like a spirit of love in you. Have you told Howard Conder to let the CC do their job and stop falsely accusing Sarah and Me and others falsely about who has compalined because it wasn’t us. He even called the CC, ” thick “on air , the man is totally in a spirit of hate and revenge towards innocent people. We have tried to sort issues out Biblically by going to him , then to the Trustees ( Elders ) then the last resort it is the church, well the Church without walls needs to see the truth, its not gossip everything Sarah has put on her blog is backed up. So I suggest you get your facts right before you come on with nay more insults in such a rude way that really is not a spirit of Christian love Andy isn’t it. Hypocrosy or take the log out of your own eye before looking at the spec in your brothers eye !
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I think if Andy were to actually read the blog objectively he may wish to retract what he has said.
In the moment we can all be a bit harsh when we have been misinformed.
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RTV should be made to revise their statement the Commission has identified “no loss or misappropriation of charitable funds by the trustees”.
“A spokeswoman from the Commission told Civil Society News that this part of the statement was completely untrue.”
http://www.civilsociety.co.uk/governance/news/content/19866/charity_commission_appoint_interim_manager_to_christian_charity_after_investigation
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What a revelation Treena, form the press release the CC put out it seemed contrary to what Revelation had broadcast, this is apparanlty word from the horses mouth so to speak, surely the CC should take action if they have been economical with the truth to the Charities supporters
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Unfortunately these are not the words from the horses mouth. It is the reported words of a journalist. Not the same thing at all. Even if we were to take the words verbatim one would have to actually see context. Not only from the standpoint of the Civil Society in asking the question that gave rise to the alleged words, but in specific context of what both Revelation TV has issued as a news bulletin, as well as what the Charity Commission elected to exclude from their ten page report. We see what we want to see and choose to be blind to that which we are minded never to see. Revelation TV will not be found to have misappropriated funds or anything of that sort. It is a complete myth. If they had done in the vulgar sense that some are claiming they would have been taken over not assisted by an interim manager. Go are read some historical case files of the Charity Commissions method of work. If you do you will find that what has happened here to Revelation TV is less than significant as a means of drawing an inference for supporting the original basis for the enquiry.
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Hi Ichabod
I agree that these are the reports of a journalist, but it is consistent with a phone conversation I had with the CC and also the live TV programme where they talked about it for an hour. The CC told me that if they were cleared, they would have explicitly said so. They haven’t said that anywhere at any time.
I agree that RTV haven’t misappropriated charity funds directly. This is about fraud relating to lies about Howard and Lesleys income, which has created an artificial need for viewers to donate. The CC may or may not have the powers to take action on that, but I cannot see them saying that things have been ok in that regard. It maybe that this needs to be investigated by other bodies.
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“Dear Ichabod,
In relation to the idea of a conspiracy I am reprinting here a very long comment I left on one of Sarah’s other posts:”
Hello Gordon
Firstly brother don’t have any more sleepless nights over Howard Conder or for that matter anyone else. Some of us are built for trouble, and so we know how to take the threats, whatever they may mean. It is a simple thing to bring a man down if the Lord Himself purposes it.
You obviously have made a clear separation in your understanding, and the only link I can see in what you have said, is that of Mr Conder and Revelation TV, not that of religious beliefs and Revelation TV. That is a proper link to make because it is set in personal rhetoric by Mr Conder himself. Holding a personal view, even if that is et in context of a blog is perfectly legal and ought not to cause anyone concern.
Unlike yourself Gordon, my own involvement, for what it is worth, is just a few weeks old. In truth I have no interest in Revelation TV or what it does, and that even extends to its facilitation of clear and undoubted heretics. Having become involved in the rather small way that I have, I have already seen some realities that I suspect others cannot see because they are too implicated emotionally with the personal nature of Mr Conder’s comments about them, either on air or on Facebook. Similarly others are only interested in exposing what they see as heresy. It has to be said that what is happening on Revelation TV doesn’t require any exposure they do that of themselves by very nature of what they do.
When I look at the publication that advertised Howie’s Bar and see Mr Conder with his arm around the man he is supporting in that endeavour, primarily due to its likelihood of financial failure, I see a man who is deeply unhappy about his involvement. I see a man who is constrained by his friend, and I see a man who would rather have been anywhere, than in that picture or in those circumstances.
To understand men we have to know their hearts and whilst it is true that it is God who knows the hearts of men, it is also true that those whom the Lord chooses to reveal men’s hearts, can also know. Is this not what Paul tells us is the very effect of the gift of prophecy? It is true that in the context of a church meeting these kinds of insights are largely hidden, and only the man himself knows what has been said. Even the one who speaks in this way is unlikely to know of whom he speaks. The mistake we make is to assume that outward things are evidence of mens hearts. When we assume to know what men are like, we should never express that before men as though we somehow actually knew.. So I only ever do that when it speaks well of the man. In this case Mr Conder was not as implicated in the meaning of Howie’s Bar as we might think. Just because someone is drawn into being a part of something, does not mean that he is happy with it. In this case it had to do with a friend.
Apart from that this is and ought to be about a registered charity and not the men. Mr Conder is no longer a trustee and so the Commission didn’t even speak with him or attempt to make contact with him. Trustees come and go, and what one trustee is able to do one day another trustee may repent of the next. In Mr Conder’s last public comments on this Commission enquiry he clearly stated that he was thinking of setting up a station that would be out side the governance of the Charity Commission. What we should be doing now is telling our stories in terms that make a clear distinction between our faith, our personal affront and discomfort to any direct attack on us by Revelation TV, its officers and appointees, and those matters that fall into the remit of the Charity Commission.
Three distinct and meaningful threads, set out as per a rational and litigant process with the evidence in mind. Telling stories in the narrative sense won’t help unless these three clear threads f understanding are made. That is my opinion and for what it is worth I share it in the certain knowledge that Revelation TV will read it and take cognisance of what it means. If anyone want’s to come against myself then please feel able to do so. I won’t be taking any prisoners if they do.
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Ichabod, can I ask is there any insight you can share re howies bar? Not sure if I’m missing something?
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“Did Alan have anything to say regarding the misleading tv show and statement on their website?”
I think that Alan believes that the press release is a true reflection of how things stand Sarah. I certainly made no effort to say anything that would contradict that view.
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Hi Ichabod
I actually did speak to Alan and whilst he wouldn’t answer my question directly confirmed that they “reasonably assumed” they are cleared.
Personally, I cannot believe this. The CC told me on the phone that if they were cleared, they would have explicitly said so. They haven’t and a spokes person has made a statement that supports this.
Unless the CC say otherwise, I think it is “reasonable to assume” that they are not cleared. The appointment of an interim manager also suggests that there are issues whether they are administrative or otherwise, it has to be concluded they had reason to take this action.
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Quite whoops moment there, but were the CC actually investigating “loss or misappropriation of charitable funds by the trustees”? I thought it was a bit of a “straw man” argument to bring it up in their statement.
I note a number of commenters here and elsewhere coming out in support of RTV without being fully aware of how they have used their position to publicly attack their critics and make threats towards them. Even “naming and shaming” when they would not allow that in relation to heretical preachers.
One of the directions some comments have gone in is that it is effectively none of anyones business. But what people forget is that the Revelation Foundation is a charity. As such it is open to public scrutiny. In return for this they get large amounts of government funding through the gift aid scheme. In the Revelation Foundation’s case they had a voluntary income of over £1M in the year to 31 Dec 2013.
That means that they could be getting £250,000 of that from the tax payer. If they want to keep things more secretive then they need to give that up and stop operating as a charity.
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The amounts of relief that Revelation TV received as a consequence of their charitable status is published in their accounts. No need to guess at it. As to your assumption that some on here are supporting Revelation TV ignorantly, you may be correct in some anonymous instances. Personally it is no about supporting Revelation TV that concerns me, they are well able to defend themselves. I despite religious bigots who make self righteous misdirections for no other reason than to further a hateful enterprise of religious intolerance. That is what I am about and you had better be clear on it whosoever you are.
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Hi Ichabod
Bigotry of any kind is not to be tolerated and I agree with your sentiment with that. Was that directed at anyone in particular or just a general statement?
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By the Horse’s mouth I meant the “Spokeswoman “for the CC that was reffered to not the Journalist
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“Bigotry of any kind is not to be tolerated and I agree with your sentiment with that. Was that directed at anyone in particular or just a general statement?”
It is a specific statement Sarah directed at those who persist in confusing what they see as doctrinal heresy, apostasy and the love of money, with Charity Commission investigations, set in motion because pf public concerns.
Unless we separate our faith from the work of the Charity Commission we will simply sow confusion. Your own disclosures do eventually carry some of the reality, although I note that your original letter of concern to Revelation TV expressly excluded concerns outside of the financial ones. I simply cannot see how it helps anyone to confuse these two things. In fact it makes reading all of these blogs and comments intensely difficult.
I spoke with Alan Tun yesterday for more than half an hour. I specifically made the point that it is extremely difficult to reconcile the “religious” concerns of some, with the financial concerns of others when trying to make sense of what is really going on, and why the Commission initiated an enquiry into Revelation TV. I made my own point that in the case of the Charity Commission a section 46 reporting requirement, is not some loose set of ideas on how to make that enquiry, it is a specific formula with very specific indicators as to what things actually mean when the Commission reports.
See: https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/346046/CC46-PDF.pdf
As Alan is a trained lawyer he understands this as well as anyone. For the rest of us we have to depend on what we read on these blogs. The simple reality in all of this is that we have no choice but to separate our faith from our use of the instrument of the law in expressing our public concern into Revelation TV. If we cannot do that then in the end this will simply go full circle and we will find that regardless as to what the Commission ends up recommending, those who press a religious concern will take their justification of their involvement in your concerns Sarah, and press them regardless.
I told Alan about Rob Thomas, Neville Stephens and Treena Gisborn in context of what I am reading on their blog sites. He was aware of one of these brethren already but was unaware of the agreement that now exists in the public domain to specifically target Revelation TV with a campaign of supposed disclosure. I find it astonishing that these brethren cannot make a distinction in their minds between a legal body, and the body of Christ. I have no doubt that they will say that they do, yet in their comments they repeatedly confuse the two things. The Commission is not interested in religious opinion. It cannot rule on religious opinion. Ecumenism is an alien word in law. It exists only in the theological dictionaries of those who promote their own agendas by electing to “expose” those who they believe are ecumenicists.
In your shoes Sarah I would make a separation before the confusion grows to the point of making your own financial concerns a meaningless enterprise.
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You raise a very good point Ichabod and I do an extent share your concerns.
At the end of the day, as you rightly say, views on doctrine and ecumenism are subjective and cannot really be taken on board by the legal system. It is difficult as whilst these things are relevant to us Christians, it’s not really the key issue here and does to some extent make things unclear.
I do find Howards choice to have what he calls in his own words “iffy” ministries a little difficult as the money for these “iffy” broadcasts go directly to Howards pocket. Howard lives a good lifestyle in Spain and the £80k he and Lesley take as salary probably doesn’t include the dividends they likely take.
Did Alan have anything to say regarding the misleading tv show and statement on their website?
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Dear Ichabod,
In relation to the idea of a conspiracy I am reprinting here a very long comment I left on one of Sarah’s other posts:
I have avoided commenting on this situation because it has been in the hands of the authorities, but I think I can now let people know what has been happening.
In April 2009 I started keeping a record of information about revelation TV in a blog article, which I occasionally updated. My reason for doing so was to provide what I hoped would be transparency through an impartial source of facts about the station and how it was organised. I felt that this would counter some of the narrative I was seeing on Facebook or other media. For example, I reproduced summaries of their OFCOM compliance cases to show that they were not being prevented from preaching the gospel, as some people had claimed. Their four cases were actually about an alleged cure for cancer, commercial promotions within programmes, breach of watershed rules and bias against homosexuals.
I recorded the ongoing story of the channel and examined its theological position. I also published some information about the structure of the business and some excerpts from their annual report and accounts. This included the relationship with 21st Century Television Ltd as a supplier, and their payments to the Revelation Foundation, although I was unaware of Sarah’s claim that income from ministries was going into the company rather than the charity.
At no time has anyone from Revelation TV complained about me publishing this material. I have had no contact with anyone from the station or with Howard Conder. My article is about a registered charity and it is all in the public domain anyway. Occasionally people would contact me about it, but I did not think about Revelation TV from one day to the next until late last year when the Charity commission investigation was opened. I was contacted a few weeks later by John Shipton and we had a brief exchange of emails.
On 4th December 2014 Howard Conder published an article on his Facebook page naming Sarah and saying she was “in cahoots” with people called Sheila and Chris and alleging that they had made complaints to the charities commission. He also said “I now have asked the trustees to give me back RTV.” Because the Charity Commission had an open investigation into the possible transfer of assets from the charity I decided to send a copy of that post to the investigation team.
On Friday 6th March Howard used his R-Mornings TV programme to specifically name me. He repeated this on a second programme on March 9th and said that when the investigation was over he would be coming after me and anyone else who had complained. He also likened what people were discussing online about Revelation TV to the trolling of the McCann family on Twitter (which was big news at that time).
I took his words as a direct threat to my personal safety and after discussions with various people I reported the threats to the Charity Commission who contacted the trustees of the Revelation Foundation about it. I also reported it to the Spanish Broadcasting Regulator CNMC who are still dealing with it, and may be referring it to the police. This is one of the reasons I have not commented since Sarah went public.
This was the second time I had been named by Howard as some sort of ringleader. Around the same time as his 14th December 2014 posting on Facebook he had written another post quoting an email written by someone else which had a photo of his house in it and stated that I wrote it. This is similar to the experience that Sarah had with one of her emails being edited and reproduced.
I want to make it absolutely clear that I did not submit the complaint to the Charity Commission. I only contacted them months later when there was an indication that assets might be about to be taken from the charity and transferred to a private company.
Although Mr Conder seems convinced there has been a conspiracy against him I did not know these other people until relatively recently and we only came into contact because of his threats! I had never heard of Sarah at all until he mentioned her name on Facebook; I knew Sheila’s name from the old Revelation TV Facebook page; Chris I had communicated with in relation to my blog once or twice, and I had been contacted by John late last year after the complaint had been made to the Charity Commission.
We don’t even agree with each other. For example, I don’t think there has necessarily been any breach of charity law. Transfers between related commercial companies are permitted provided there are proper contracts and paperwork in place. I think people will be disappointed by the scope of current charity legislation and I have said so elsewhere. I do think Revelation TV should have included income from ministries and payments to 21st Century TV Ltd in their Building the Foundation graphs. Both would have cancelled each other out, but they should have been shown for clarity. I also don’t think the Conder family should have been trustees of the foundation while their commercial company was benefiting from contracts with the charity. I suspect the Charity Commission will insist on greater separation of the two. Like many of these Christian TV channels it is run more like a family business (think the Alecs at God TV or the Crouchs at TBN). This is probably why they have problems with charity accountability. It must feel like an intrusion – but it is the price of the funding they get in tax relief and gift aid.
In relation to Howies Club, I think it was ill judged knowing the constituency of their supporters. Denying any involvement in it was just weird.
I don’t know why Howard went for me in this way specifically. It must be partly about public scrutiny of what must feel like his family firm. I was probably also an easy target as I am not a fundamentalist evangelical. I am, however, a Christian and I bear him no ill will.
Finally, I have had a considerable number of sleepless nights over this whole affair, and I don’t think these are likely to end any time soon. I just hope that the outcome of the Charity Commission investigation is accepted by all sides when it is published.
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Yes, I must add that if it weren’t for all the lies etc, I would never have had contact with any of those I am now in communication with regarding this subject. We are all from different parts of the country!
Howards assertions that we were all conspiring against him was nothing more than paranoia.
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This is part of the CC’s statement in November 2014 Gordon – it does indicate “loss of charitable funds” as well as other things:
“In March 2014 complaints were received from members of the public alleging the charity was being used for private advantage. A subsequent scrutiny of the charity’s accounts by the commission identified regulatory concerns which include potential significant loss of charitable funds, trustee benefits, conflicts of interest and connected party transactions. These concerns are primarily in relation to the production and broadcasting of television programmes from Spain as well as the trustees’ decisions to transfer significant charitable assets and funds from the UK to Spain.”
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/new-charity-investigation-revelation-foundation
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Yes, but they were never accused of “misappropriation” which is what they claim to have been cleared of!
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Yes, you’re right. It wasn’t stated in the original statement by the CC.
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People have a right to ask questions regarding funding, even more so when the Trustees will not answer questions, the public have a right to complain about anything if they genuinely think something is not quite right, Are you going to take everyone to court who has asks questions? It is like saying, my bank is now taking me to court because I complained about ppi and lost the case. Get real Rev TV supporters the CC opened a statutory enquiry, a most serious event, some complaints do not go this far they are resolved before this stage, if you read the CC website. People are being ridiculed on air and are stonewalled with a right to reply.
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“No one who practices deceit shall dwell in my house; no one who utters lies shall continue before my eyes.” (Psalm 101/7)
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As I have said before I had cut ALL ties with revelation TV a year ago due to my disgust at things that happened and Gordon threatening me with libel. This was after many many years of rude , abusiver behaviour towards Me from both Howard and Leslie,, Yemi balogun who once worked at REV TV is a witness to one lot of abuse/ridicule from Leslie which she said in his presence.I had finished with them totally. Never even though of putting them on TV ever.
I was made aware of Sarah’s blog, I had never heard of Sarah or Chris prior to that. I had no idea that Howard Conder had falsely accused me of complaining to the Charities commsion or made very obnoxious comments on his facebook last year until I read Sarah’s blog .Howard and co have brought upon themselves all that is being questioned on these blogs by falsely accusing us on air and FB. Also by ignoring Sarah’s private E Mails asking repeatedly to sort it out biblically and privately
I had no idea at all re finances, I had expressed concern over ring fenced OB Truck money and its replacement and the money for the equipment that was raised. Also had , had E Mail conversation with Felicity Corbin Wheeler as she does get business from her air time on revelation TV it is in essence advertising on the programmes the viewers pay for. Her answer was that Phillip Day advertises his books and Howard and Leslie are fine with it.Had Howard not falsely accused Me I would still be in a position of npt knowing or caring what they do. I have been so mistreated by them. I also discretely told them some issues that need attention and for asking questions or having opinions. They will not answer perfectly legitimate questions , The Trustees ignore correspondence. You cannot run a charity in this way the Trustee’s are obliged to answer any quieries.
As for Alan Tun being a lawyer if he is not really sure exactly what place he has in law, but that has given him an opportunity to split legal hairs with Me over if Howard owned or directed Howies, he was very keen to answer that Howard wasn’t an owner but still awaiting a reply from a few weeks ago about directorship. Alan may have all of the Legal loopholes tied up but wen it comes to Christian human relationship and being totally honest and open in non legal conversations, I believe He is very much lacking in my opinion. My Brother is a Judge and I guess at times He can’t take his proffesional hat off and engage in a normal conversation that isn’t all abut legality. As long as the law says you aren’t coming an offence it doesn’t seem to matter who is hurt, insulted, lied to or about. etc etc
Alan after telling Me He had spoken to Howard reference his attitude and accusations and telling me he had asked Howard to seek the Holy spirit once again sat next to him on Monday’s late show and didn’t say a word when he called the CC thick and insulted them, also Howard once again made referance to “Someone ” who He suspects made the complaints. Howard slso responded to a viewer who said could They not sue the People who had made the complaints, for what I ask ! Howard said he had asked his Lawyer. One Viewer pulled him up to say that the Bible says don’t take your Christain brother to court t but those at Rev TV seem oblivious to this scripture or they know it and choose to ignore it. Why on earth should anyone with evidence ( they will not look at compliants without apparanlty) be sued for doing what is legal and right. Did Rev TV not make a statements that they welcomed the investigation, Howard clearly didn’t if he wanted to Sue.
Another issue which gives Christians and Gods kingdom a very bad reputation is Howards awful demeaning attitude to the Charities Commision let alone those who sit beside Him and let him do it., What sort of witness is He in all of this. An ideal public opportunity to show non Christians and further th Gospel that those involved in a Christian Charity behave differantely to to others, I doubt they get the abusive behavoir and comment of Him of him and his threatening behavoir and insults an false accusations of which they are aware, what an absolutely appaling appaling witness for Jesus, He has been in it all. Bu then Alan Tun said to Me when I said that Howard’s behavoir on air was a bad witness that He thought it was Ok , that non Christian would think that’s good He behaves like Me. What about salt and light and the fruits of the spirit. The Charities Commision will have a wonderful view of God and his church after Howard’s behavioir won’t they. !!
Another question that has raised in my mind over the past weeks is, there has been talk of lawyers and asking lawyers opinions, we al know they don’t come cheap, so who exactly pays for this and also no mention as yet of who will foot the bill for the interim Manager. Will it be those necessitating His presence or the Viewers or will Howard try to sue those who rightfully and legally made the complaint.
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“Another question that has raised in my mind over the past weeks is, there has been talk of lawyers and asking lawyers opinions, we al know they don’t come cheap, so who exactly pays for this and also no mention as yet of who will foot the bill for the interim Manager. Will it be those necessitating His presence or the Viewers or will Howard try to sue those who rightfully and legally made the complaint.”
Howard cannot sue anyone as long as they do not make unqualified claims about his personal honesty. Revelation TV cannot sue anyone as long as those who speak about it do so in context of its Charity Commission standing. The bill for the Interim Manger will likely run into tens of thousands of pounds. The Charity Commission itself has ruled that this cost is to be met by Revelation TV itself.
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Agreed. The only way Howard can come after us is if we cannot prove something. We have a responsibility to make sure we only say things that are indisputable or if we do not have 100% confidence in our evidence that we make clear that we are to an extent speculating.
In regards to the bill for the interim manager, that has been confirmed, as Ichabod rightly says that RTV will fund this.
To give an idea of the sums that could be involved, a charity I had been involved with was in a similar situation.
The interim manager came in and immediately £60,000 was taken from the charity accounts. More was likely taken to fund ongoing costs throughout the investigation. This was 14 years ago, so do adjust for inflation!
The CC have said that the interim manager will be working at a reduced rate, but Ichabod is correct that it will likely be into the tens of thousands.
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Well it isn’t the Viewers responsibility to have to pay for any incompetence on behalf of those running the Channel , neccesitating this interim Manager
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You are right Gordon – it seems the “misappropriation” word has been added by RTV…. The CC statement said (amongst other issues) “potential significant loss of charitable funds”. I don’t know exactly what that means do you? In any event RTV have pre-empted the outcome of the investigation and made a misleading statement to their own advantage. I have contacted the CC about this today, because I think RTV’s are giving out misinformation to the public…. or as someone else said it is “pure spin”.
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The state of your mouth and the words that come out of it also reflect what is in your heart, as Jesus himself says in Matthew 12:34 “You brood of vipers! How can you who are evil say anything good? For out of the overflow of the heart the mouth speaks.”
To understand men we have to know their hearts and whilst it is true that it is God who knows the hearts of men.
I beleive We can see what is in the hearts of Men by what comes out of the mouth , this scripture tells us that.
What comes out of Howards mouth a lot of the time shows the very poor state his heart must be in, false accusations, threats, rudeness, insults. etc.
Regards Howies club, Leslie his Wife was to have said to a viewer that it was Howards dream to own a club like that but He didn’t. His Son Luke was running it advertising large cocktails , Howard and Co from revelation looked anything but not happy and not wanting to be there on the opening night. There was big celebrations, photographic evidence and wording were there to prove it.
We know that Howard can’t sue but He uses it as a threat to all and sundry that He imagines have done something or other upset by, this is not biblical Christian behavoir.
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It is certainly true that out of the overflow of the heart the mouth speaks, but that has little to do with the heart itself. Men can and do say perverse things. The heart however is a vessel and it can contain both good and ill, and often does in equal measure. If I were to set my mind to judging every word that has come out of the mouth of everyone I know personally, I know of no one who would be able to stand. But what if we were to actually see the heart itself and not simply its overflowing effect? We would be more inclined to compassion than to judgement, because we would realise that even a bitter man can weep for others. So far as I can tell nothing that has to do with the promotion of a business, in words has anything to do with the heart in the way you are claiming. Nor can hearsay testimony be reckoned as a truth.
“If you being evil know how to give good things to your children” Matt 7:11
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Photograph’s can’t lie and Im not talking about judging words, i’m speaking of continuous unchanging nasty, accusing , threatening behaviour on air by Howard Conder, He shows little self control in how He speaks about People, So where id the fruit of the Spirit as you have said you have come in to this only recently, if you had , had to endure what others have for years from REV TV, you may take a differant view. I don’t really understand what your purpose is on this blog to be honest .
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Photographs simply tell us what we can see with our eyes. It is also true that in some sense a photograph cannot lie. This must be especially true if that photograph represents a man and his friend together, intended to show that the man supports his friend in his new venture. The particular photograph I am speaking about is one that appeared in a publicity article to promote the club.
I posted earlier about an emotional intelligence test that can be found on Treena’s Facebook page, and I made what could have been seen as a flippant comment. The comment may also have been inclined to give direction. However direction is not always indicated by what people actually say, anymore than a photograph showing two men standing together in an embrace of friendship, simply tells us that they were together. What Luke was doing, or a man’s wife or anyone else for that matter, has nothing to do with what Howard was doing and why he was doing it. If all we can see is what is set before our eyes then we have seen nothing more than that which is visible. Even then the photograph does reveal something deeper than the mere evidence of a man and his friend. It tells us of a restraining influence and a momentary discomfort because of a sense of vulnerability.
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Is there an element that I’m missing? Howard seemed very happy to have a bar.
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How on earth can you say the photograph tells us of a restraining influence and momentary discomfort because of a sence of vunerability. Why was the club named after Howard, He was known as Howie in his younger days and more recently had a book of the same title Howie. There was also a web site for Howies with a photograph of Howard and write up of His past .
Surely no Christian Man especially one in the public eye would get involved in a club that was less than Godly to please a Friend, God should have come first.
You are making these assumptions do you have any factual evidence to what you see in the picture.
Howard must have known that this club would cause offense to some supporters, so are you saying that He put his ministry and Gods Kingdom second to being involved in this club.
Do you know Howard personally , so that you are privy to information on the truth of this club
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I think for me, the question is why lie about it and other things? I own an American Diner and may at some point decide to get an alcohol licence, but would probably have a limit of 2-3 drinks per person as it’s a family venue where drunkenness would be inappropriate and feel it’s morally wrong to encourage such behaviour.
It’s questionable for a Christian to own a bar where drinking to excess is the goal for many of its patrons, but this isn’t really the issue.
The issue is the cover up and the outright lies. Although having said that, I do share the same thoughts that viewers would be outraged that this has been funded by airing “iffy” ministries.
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I guess you won’t be getting a licence fro Civil Cerimonies’ though will you Sarah as Howies Club advertised on their website
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I will likely avoid getting such a licence as I don’t want to be forced to do something I disagree with.
Homosexuality is a complicated subject though and I would like to write an article on it. I heard somewhere that the majority of homosexuals who commit suicide do so, due to religious pressure. I don’t feel to condone such behaviour, but equally we all sin one way or another. Homosexuals do seem to get focused on more than every day pervasive sin such as gossip and gluttony (said by the woman who makes the best milkshakes in town!).
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I agree that they do get focused on more than other sin especially other sexual sin such as fornication and adultery, I have found this on REV TV that they very much talk about homosexuality but not fornication, maybe this is a little too close to home I don’t know. God is very clear that a Man should not lie with a Man, but I do beleive that People dont’ necessarily chose to be homosexual and I have read many books on the subject that it can be due to issues in life that they feel this way and also testimonies that God can heal, if they want that. I would never condem a homosexual at all, But I think the act ., which God calls sin cannot be condoned.
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Revelation TV are complete hypocrites… they come against homosexuality and yet condone John Hagee who is in an adulterous marriage. The Bible gives a list of “the unrighteous” who will not inherit the kingdom of God….. the sexually immoral, idolaters, adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality (1 Corinthians 6/9). We can’t just pick on one particular group when we condone adultery, that is to be completely double minded!!!! In their usual style RTV are very selective in what they say…. the false teachers they air is a critical issue before the Lord. Without right doctrine nothing will be right!!! God bless
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Hi Ichabod,
Could i ask if you know about Accounts and Auditing? as you seem to be well informed about everything? if so would you class rtv structure as a Group?
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Concerning Ichabod’s detailed “revelation” to us about the photograph:
Either…
1) He has inside information about ‘Howie’s’ and he speaks from that knowledge which has nothing at all to do with “reading” the photograph, which would be deliberate deceit, or…
2) He has indeed “read” the photograph in the way that he has, and so has exercised the forbidden occult practice of divination.
It’s either one or the other, but whichever it is shows extremely unrighteous behaviour on his part!
A good overview of divination from a Biblical perspective can be found here:
http://www.gotquestions.org/Bible-divination.html
Best wishes in Him,
Rob.
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Nice try Robert! A really good article of the meaning and reality of occult divination can be found here on my own blog. There are eight articles in total. If you find yourself belt to get through hem Robert you may learn something.
https://blog.ichabod.eu/sorcerers/
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Could I also ask that we keep this if Sarah’s blog. Come and attack me elsewhere brethren my telephone number is 01208 892519. Be direct then we can all speak plainly.
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If Sarah lets this through I would like to make some rational sense of how simple matter it is to see what we want to see and miss what is in fact being said.
At the moment Robert, Treena and Neville are agreeing to “expose” me, a fact that is eve indent in their comments or else in their “liking” of comments.
Whereas if we look back in this article we can see that I brought up a reality myself. Treena herself made the comment “Crumbs – the emotional test was just a laugh…. I think my daughter put it up on facebook originally. No deep and meaningful intended!”
By bringing this issue up before it was raised here as an accusation by Robert Thomas against myself, I have already exposed the lie that’s coming. We need to be careful in how we serve the Lord because we will have to give an account.
I agree with Treena that the emotional intelligence test that she thinks her daughter posted on her Facebook page is just a silly piece of nonsense. One could say that it is in fact a childish thing. However, if you were to take that test yourself you would see that it is predicated on facial physiognomic meanings. In other words can you yourself tell whether the face presented in each of the ten images is of a certain kind of emotion. Sarah did the test as well and reported herself as being successful.
The point of the test is really to establish empathy on the part of the student taking the test. What I did was to elude to a deeper reality, and not simply the human reality of empathy. Now Robert tells me that i am a diviner because I say that I can see something in Mr Conder’s face which others cannot see. Yet I scored a top mark in the test. So did Sarah of course and yet Sarah asked me the question “Am I missing something”. To answer Sarah then and to set aside the accusation I would say that you are all missing something.
The instrument by which we know what things really mean may well be an instrument of divination. But if it is then it is our very bodies and minds that is the informant. On the other hand it is possible to know something in the spirit and our eyes can then see it in outward things. No need to make of a gift of the Holy Spirit a thing of Satan, anymore than it would be reasonable to have said to Treena that she is encouraging divination by a facilitation of psychological confidence.
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I think I can connect the dots as to how you drew your conclusion.
Howard looks somewhat uneasy in the picture, but Howard often pulls this face and it could be for a number of reasons including that he knew he was doing something that was questionable.
The article also makes clear that Howard joined the business, but his partner had been running it as owner for a while before. This doesn’t prove that he was helping a friend, but could be a reasonable assumption. It does need to be noted that Howard has always wanted to do this kind of thing, so helping a friend or not, it has been an ambition for a while.
I don’t think this is anything conclusive and is purely speculation, but I can see what you are alluding to.
The point is and always has been that they have lied about it. However, possible motives are not without merit so thank you for sharing.
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My problem with Christians who would be involved in any bar or club is how would you witness to the alcoholic about the saving Blood of Jesus
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what can wash away my sins, nothing but the BLOOD OF JESUS,
what can make me whole again nothing but the BLOOD OF JESUS.
JESUS CANNOT BE DIVIDED HE IS IN EVERY DECISION WE WOULD MAKE,
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“Hi Ichabod,
Could i ask if you know about Accounts and Auditing? as you seem to be well informed about everything? if so would you class rtv structure as a Group?”
My wife trained as a forensic accountant and my business partner is a Chartered Accountant. I have been making up and keeping accounts for thirty years, albeit on a small scale myself.
In a strict legal sense RTV is not a group as defined by Companies Law, this is because the GROUP spans across at least three jurisdictions. As a charity however RTV complies with best practise and as required by law, and therefore it presents its accounts as both GROUP accounts and CHARITY accounts.
There are numerous companies as well as an equivalent CHARITABLE entity, that are implicated in RTV.
These are:
Revelation Association (Spanish Charity)
Revelation TV Incorporated (US Company)
There is also the company known as Revelation TV Ltd
Revelation TV Ltd is now showing as DORMANT at Companies House and this is because Revelation TV was wholly taken over by the CHARITY Revelation Foundation and is operated through another wholly owned subsidiary of the CHARITY. This operating company is called Revelation TV Europe SL and is a company registered in Spain.
Whilst there may be some plausible reasons for creating this structure the effect is likely to make the detail less than meaningful for many people. However all of these details are in the 2012/13 year end accounts and they are fully audited and transparent in accounting terms.
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@ Ichabod.
You are not being attacked. You are simply being seen and shown up for what you are!
Hypocrite! You put a mass of comments on Sarah’s blog, and now say, “let’s keep it off it” and converse privately. Well, that’s not going to happen.
Sorry to disappoint you, Ichabod, but I’m not interested in playing your games. I know what you are, and who you’re working for. GET THEE BEHIND ME, SATAN!
In the mighty Name of Jesus,
Rob (or Robert as you’ve chosen to know me as!)
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Robert do that on your own blog. If you want I will give you access to a dedicated blog on my site and you can attack me to your hearts content, in full visibility of my own ministry. All I asked out of courtesy to Sarah was that you attack me in another place. If you believe that you must attack me in this place then that is something that Sarah has to deal with herself. I have no problem with your posts for myself Robert. I am thinking of Sarah and her ambitions with this blog. If Sarah wants to allow your posts through then that’s fine by me.
Nothing you can say Robert will do your cause any good if you are incapable of knowing the difference between a prophetic gift and Satan. It will not surprise you to know Robert that I once did serve Satan directly. So whilst I am not impressed with your “Get thee behind me Satan” he surly will be.
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There are clearly some strong feelings on here between us, but they are not really constructive to the aims of this blog.
Ichabod has made clear that any comments directed at him be put on his blog, so that’s probably a good way forward.
I do feel there is a misunderstanding of agendas here. However, I think we are all wanting the same thing – truth!
Truth isn’t as simple as what we think. Yes it is based on evidence, but our interpretations of evidence can be subjective.
Lets focus on the main thing. Together we are stronger.
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All quiet on the Western Front then!
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It would appear so for now. Probably not for long though!
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A face to the name Ichabod: Jewish Mother, Irish Father, Italian Son in Law
I am posting this because I am appalled at the man who referred to Ichabod as a Satanic Man.
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Thank you for this anonymous.
This is a lovely video showing a little glimpse of Ichabod as a father. The highlight for me is during the reception with a kiss for his son.
Whilst I know there is contention between some on here with Ichabod, I do want to stress that if people look for the reason behind Ichabods comments you will find a there is not a satanic thing here, but actually a man who is seeking a different approach to dealing with this situation.
Personally I have been on a bit of a journey with this.
My heart has always been for those at Revelation TV to repent and step down in order for them to get right with God and those they have wronged. However, lately things have been more about exposing the “evil people” rather than helping those that need God’s love and grace.
Howard and Co have been doing some horrendous things, but equally they are just human and whilst we have a duty to judge their behaviour, we also should make room for them to truly repent and then come back to God.
I’m not really for promoting a concept that they should be brought back into ministry again, at least not for considerable time, but I don’t want to destroy them as people where they no longer feel they can even set foot in a church even after repentance.
Ichabod understands our concerns and what we are trying to do, but he is concerned that generally we need to show love and grace whilst exposing the sin.
This was my original stance too and Ichabod has helped get me back to that place again.
It is hard as Howard has lied about many of us personally. He has covered up and he has deceived for profit. The behaviour is not ok and must be addressed. Consequences are needed to bring him to a place of repentance, but grace and love are needed in addition to the rebuke.
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Let this be for wisdom and let it be for truth.
There was one unusual feature about this wedding of my daughter to her groom, apart from the union of two families, both Jew and Gentile. Every single part of this wedding was organised by myself. I chose the flowers, prepared the food before hand, laid the tables, designed the wedding jug and plate, designed the cake, light the candles, laid down the tent, prepared the ground thereon and chose the string quartets. When the feast was underway the groom’s father came to me at the table and he said to me “Thank you for Sarah”. I understood immediately that he was thanking me for my daughter who was free from controversy, encumbrance and fault. In the day she married she was free from anxieties and concerns and so she was free to be herself for her husband. No one could lay anything against her.
Do we understand that Jesus is yet a servant to all who would come to the marriage feast of the Lamb?
In that day The Lord Jesus will put aside his garment, and girding up his loins He will serve at His table in His own kingdom. Then He will ride on the clouds in the full visibility of the nations and reign with a rod of iron. We need to know that today we are yet servants, and the only true way to serve is for each man and woman to be free to do their own part. It is Christ as our head that ensures this possibility, as long as we remember that we are many members, His body.
This blog is about Revelation TV. But Revelation TV is about one man. That man is Howard Lowthian Conder. Sarah Acott has set her face to speaking about this one man, with a view to speaking about Revelation TV. This has to be so, because Mr Conder is Revelation TV. In rather the same way that my daughter’s wedding speaks of myself in organisation and determination. If my daughter’s wedding had given rise to offence then the only person who could have been held to account was myself. I chose that it should be this way so that the offence of many opinions could be removed before they could rise up and cause ruin. In the same way, whatever offence did arise it would be directed at me and not others. Mr Conder has to be of the same mind, otherwise he has no basis for justifying his driving energies in directing so many that are Revelation TV.
All those who have served Mr Conder over the years have a sound reason to look to Mr Conder himself and ask those questions that concern the offences that have risen. Those who ask in this way cannot be spoken against, nor can they be denied the right of asking. If they are then Mr Conder is become a liar by his own silence, and the clamour of others.
There was one person who took offence at my daughters wedding. I have known her for many years and so I was concerned for her. It turned out that her offence was not with my daughter, nor with myself, but with her own father who had let her down in life. The wedding had just brought it all back. In looking at Revelation TV therefore, and of necessity Mr Conder, we must be careful not to bring those offences which we hold, to the table of enquiry that is now being laid down by Sarah Acott.
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Does anyone who reads this fine blog actually think that there was ever going to be an outside broadcast truck? or that the move to spain had anything at all to do with Ofcom?
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Hi Hopeful.
I think the others will be able to answer better than me, but the move to Spain happened after Ofcom changed its rules and relaxed certain things that RTV were trying to escape.
Howard was advertising a Spanish Christian community back in the first year and to be honest a big part of the move was probably because they fancied it. Can’t blame them for wanting the sunshine I guess.
Re the OB Truck, I suspect they did genuinely want to do it. The problem is and had been all along, Howard has ideas that aren’t fully thought through before they commit to them.
Howard is from my view, a big picture person. He has an idea, but doesn’t think about the details. This is OK in itself, but Howard has surrounded himself with people who can’t or dont want to keep him in check.
The trustees should be holding him back from these types of commitments until all details gave been worked out.
They have a team of people to do these things so have no real excuse for this type of mess up. I believe the new studio fund has encountered similar hiccups.
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What a shame from IP address 46.64.39.160
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Interesting. For those who don’t know someone impersonated me on Nev’s blog today. Their ip address shows they are from the Littlehampton area.
Very strange day!
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And we all know who that was Sarah!!!
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Their Spanish licence was issued in January 2007, which was after they had received one regulatory censure from OFCOM. So the decision to move to Spain could not have been based on their other three incidents with OFCOM which were all after they had been granted a Spanish licence. They got the Spanish licence three years before they moved operations to Spain.
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That’s very true Gordon…What was the Spanish property market like at that time I wonder? going down the toilet? This isn’t going to go away anytime soon, of that i’m certain.
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I remember Howard talking abut having a Christian community in Spaiin, Barbara Fernando used to sell properties over there, she also advertised on air. There was I think some controvosy over her advertising as once as she talked about it all on R Mornings once.
When I saw the going on’s of the Conder children ( with evidence ) I contacted her to say that the Christian Community community was tainted by this, She then went on to attack Me after contacting Howard and asking if He knew Me. He told her I was well known at Rev TV, She called Me a so called Christian for “Attacking ” the Conder family as they were all wonderful .
Howard went on his own at first but then they all followed one by one and then presenters some have stayed some have disappeared, like Tim. Rachelle seems to have gone missing as well.
Im also sure I recall Howards saying He asked God on a flight to Spain once about moving there and God said no, does anyone else remember this.
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Let no corrupting talk come out of your mouths, but only such as is good for building up, as fits the occasion, that it may give grace to those who hear.
Matthew 15:11
It is not what goes into the mouth that defiles a person, but what comes out of the mouth; this defiles a person.”
Colossians 4:6
Let your speech always be gracious, seasoned with salt, so that you may know how you ought to answer each person.
Proverbs 15:1-2
Even a fool who keeps silent is considered wise; when he closes his lips, he is deemed intelligent.
Proverbs 15:4
If anyone thinks he is religious and does not bridle his tongue but deceives his heart, this person’s religion is worthless.
Psalm 141:3
Ecclesiastes 5:2-4
Be not rash with your mouth, nor let your heart be hasty to utter a word before God, for God is in heaven and you are on earth. Therefore let your words be few. For a dream comes with much business, and a fool’s voice with many words. When you vow a vow to God, do not delay paying it, for he has no pleasure in fools. Pay what you vow.The heart of the righteous ponders how to answer, but the mouth of the wicked pours out evil things.
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Thank you for your wisdom Anonymous. We must be careful that we speak with wisdom and truth.
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I just hope that Mr Condor will think before he speaks, however he just cannot seem to help himself, he was on about things again on Monday. Why go on and on about things, it’s down to the CC now Mr C. accept it. Concise and succinct please, not waffle.
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Yes so much truth annonymous. I know the reason some of us are some of us are on this this blog is due to the mouth pouring out evil things, that is Howard about us. Then Howard has gone on to pour out words like ” thick” to those who have dealt with the complaints about REV TV. He has falsely accused people on air and off and the purpose of our writings is to try to get him and others at REV TV and viewers to fear God and look at their sin and truly repent.
I cannot bring the Scripture verse to mind fully but there a scripture that says , do not bear false witness that is to lie and falsely accusing People is just that.
Proverbs 15 v 1-2 ,let your speech always be gracious seasoned with salt ,particullaly struck me as I spoke with Alan Tun about Howards behaviour on air and He said He thought it was ok as non Christians would look and think Oh that Man is just like Me. But as this scripture says that is not so. So many presenters, Howard’s Brothers in Christ sit next to him whilst He pours out his contempt at whoever He may have imagined to have done him wrong and they don’t correct Him or say a word, I have witnessed particulally Hugh Jackman do this.
There has been so much ungracious talk about Viewers on air and off for a long , long time, so hopefully those at REV TV along with us will take these Scriptures on board.
Jesus called a spade a spade and publicly rebuked those who were sinning and spoke to the multitudes about them and exposed their sin.
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Agree with you Sheila, Condor is incapable of taming his tongue,
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The website for Howie’s Club was taken down. However, once something is on the Internet, there’s a good chance it will always be on the Internet. You may have covered this in another post, but the site can still be viewed at archive.org. The website plainly stated who the owners were and who ran the club. Howard is listed as an owner and as being involved in running the club.
https://web.archive.org/web/20140326084816/http://howiesclub.com/about-the-owners
Also, there is still a photo of Howard with MasFusion when they performed at Howie’s. He doesn’t look like he wants to be somewhere else to me. The photo is halfway down the page. I’m surprised it hasn’t been removed. https://www.facebook.com/masfusionband/timeline?ref=page_internal
Shortly after the news about Howie’s Club came out and Howard denied owning it, I viewed documents online that listed Howard as the owner of Howie’s Club. I can’t find that link right now, but I’ll try to track that down. The important point for me is that Howard denied owning this club or running it. Yet, the evidence says he did own it and did run it. That was when I stopped watching Revelation TV. I dislike many of their programming choices, and many other things, but Howard’s blatant lies about Howie’s Club is when I turned off Revelation TV permanently and stopped supporting them. It wasn’t so much that he owned a bar, it was that he lied about it and tried to cover up the truth. Knowing that makes it easier to believe all the other charges leveled against Revelation TV.
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jam, thankyou for sharing that evidance. I too like you came right to the end with REV TV after the incidents over howies club. I switched off for good and didnt follow anything of them. I had, had years of being called names and insulted prior to this. But lies and allowing Viewers to get at each other as no one came forward with the truth, coupled with Gordon Pettie threatening me with libel was too much for Me. I E Mailed the Trustees’s the weekend that all of the confusion over this Club was on their FB, no statement to confirm the truth at all. They then closed down their FB page a few days later as they have done again now.
The reason sarah has done this blog with me giving input is because we want to see repentance and reform and step down if necessary. Also to show evidance to all about truth that is documented.
Howard came on air on R Mornings this week and approx 39 mins into the show said to Grady that things that were being written about them were hurtful and lies.
Jesus was concerned about souls and about the Kingdom of God not about hurting feelings. Jesus spoke out publicly so the hearers could be warned.
I would challenge Him to state the lies and back it up as We are. sometimes we need to be hurtful to get People to come to repentance. To leave them in their lies and sinful behaviour would be the most hurtful thing to do to them as Apostle Paul said to the church Now I am glad I sent a letter with instruction not because it hurt you, but because the pain caused you to repent and change your ways.
Moreoever it is total hypocrisy that He says he is hurt ,He has hurt myself, Sarah, Chris and Gordon in naming us FALSLEY on air and on FB for being the ones to go to the CC, He has said horrible things about us.
The only reason I got in touch with Sarah was because of what he was saying, yet now HE complains about being hurt and having lies said about him !
Another issue is the OB Truck that had ring fenced money for it and it has ben used for another purpose and Alan Tun has not replied to my question on this as others didn’t over the years.
If as they say on fundraising we are transparent why no make statement on this for those that are in doubt . They were very quick to make a press release proffessing their innocence re CC investigation.
They read out only positive flattering E Mails and leave the questions and negative comments unread.
This in the church without walls are aiding and abetting them in sin when they flatter and are blind to the truth.
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Dear Sarah and Sheila,
Please can you watch Tuesdays Late show approx 5 minutes into programme, I know you have been at the brunt of so much, but listening to this would you consider extending an olive branch of reconciliation.
God Bless You both,
XX
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Hi Just
I will have a watch when I get an opportunity.
The problem is that we have all extended the olive branch many times and each time they do not accepted it and lie further.
All we have asked for is to acknowledge that things haven’t been ok and that things have to change. This is happening slowly because of the pressure we are putting on them. Most viewers will never have heard Howard and Leslie talk about how they make a living until the other week and they only did so because of the pressure we are putting on them.
Sadly, instead of dialogue they lie further. Howard told some horrendous lies about me, to the point I was actually worried to see other Christians for fear of them believing what he had said. Howard has never retracted his lies about me and he has not responded to one email.
If they were genuine with this, they would make contact, but instead they lie.
A while back Howard called for mediation, but then backed out. I was ready to go through with it, as I have nothing to lose, but they knew we had all the evidence and couldn’t get away from the truth.
I will watch with an open heart when I can as we would all prefer to deal with this privately, but it’s in RTVs hands.
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Hi Just
I’ve watched it.
There are several things that strike me about this.
Firstly, Howard talking about ending it all has been going on from day one. This may be true. However, it’s said to gain support and sympathy. I do feel for Howard and there is evidence that there may be a few mental health issues that go along with this. I’m not hardened to the fact that being exposed in this way is uncomfortable for him. Equally, it was very distressing with the outright lies he spread about me, my family and the others. We are only telling the truth however.
Secondly, Howard admitted he is a failure. This is nothing new. It’s his way of making himself look and feel humble. I think he genuinely believes that he is humble, but anyone who has suggested a different route will only get his anger and possibly a threat of libel.
I feel to share an incident which I haven’t written about before. The reason being it was an extremely painful event for my brother and scarred him so badly that I don’t want to open old wounds. I hope he won’t mind my sharing now.
Around 10 years ago, an employee sent Howard an email. It was containing suggestions for how to improve things at RTV. Howard decided to do individual interviews with everyone on the team, which included my brother of around 16 years old at the time.
My poor brother had read the email as it was distributed by Howard for discussion in these individual interviews. He saw that these suggestions had their merit and said so. What he didn’t realise was that Howard was not happy about the email and it was an ambush.
Howard shouted and screamed at my brother who broke down over it.
My brother wasn’t rude, he was just giving honest feedback. He had no idea what was going on – he was a kid! Howard made him feel so small and destroyed his confidence for several years after.
Just like then, Howard will not listen to feedback unless it is to boost his ego.
The biggest problem here is the trustees. I see Howard as vulnerable to an extent, but the trustees are supposed to intervene in these cases. They have been copied into everything and yet not responded or taken any action. I believe this is due to Gordon Pettie, who likes to keep all his trustees towing the line.
I will send an email again and I will graciously offer the olive branch once more. I will do this because you have asked it of us and done so in a correct way. However, I know I will not be likely to get a response.
Thank you Just for your comments. It’s really appreciated that you are balanced and fair in this.
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I have been upset with Revelation TV because of the deception and the hurt lives. I think what Howard said in the video should be taken seriously. It has certainly caused me to step back. Whenever anyone talks about taking their own lives, it needs to be taken seriously. As of today, I’m dropping this. I do hope all of this ends soon. I doubt anyone here would like to provoke Howard until he harms himself. It makes me think of the controversy between Dr. James White and Ergun Caner. That battle ended in the suicide of Caner’s son. Afterwards, White finally stopped his battle against Caner, but it was too late then. Perhaps White should have exposed him once and then walked away. He didn’t do that. I think that may be happening here. I think, despite all the wrongs done by Revelation TV, this needs to end. How would you feel if Howard or one of his children took their lives because of all this? Would you change anything? Everything has been exposed. To continue on is like beating a dead horse. It needs to be left in the hands of God (and the Charity Commission). All the people who have been hurt by Rev TV –, who are calling for justice — I understand the pain. I understand the need to be proved right, though I don’t think it’s Godly. I encourage you to let it go, forgive, and trust God. That’s what I’m going to do right now. God will deal with the wheat and the tares. Jesus said we would grow together until the end. It will be God who ultimately determines who the tares are and who the wheat is. Yes we are to expose false teachers and wolves, but we are not supposed to hound them to death. As Christians our greatest calling is to love one another. By this, the world will know we are truly His disciples. Please forgive. It’s for your own good as well as everyone else involved.
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Hi Jam
I understand where you are coming from, but I think read what I have said in response to Just.
Howard has always talked of ending it all, but I think what we need to really look at here, is who’s fault it would actually be if he did?
Would it be me? I don’t think so.
Was it Jesus fault that Judas hung himself?
Judas sinned and then realised what he had done and as a result killed himself.
Howard knows in his heart what he has done, but will not admit to it and lies further to conceal his sin. If Howard killed himself through his sins being exposed it would be his own doing and that of the trustees and those who have told him to keep lying and supported him in the lies. Those who give him bad counsel are responsible for any consequences that may occur.
I do not believe Howard would kill himself. It’s a regular threat to gain sympathy and I remember being genuinely concerned about him during the first year. He would talk about how he had to stand far away from the tracks as the temptation was there. This was 12 years ago and I’ve heard it many times since.
He may have moments of wanting to end it, but I think most of us do at times. The difference is, most of us don’t have a TV audience to boost us if we talk about it. Howard feeds off it.
Lets turn this around… I know of many people Howard has destroyed. There are so many stories of people who have been full on abused by Howard.
There is one woman who took herself and kids to Spain to work for RTV. She was a single mum with relatively young children. Unfortunately for her she was brave enough to comment on a situation, which wasn’t right concerning friends of the Conder kids I believe. She was instantly dismissed.
This poor woman had moved from the UK to Spain. Moved her children! Spent money on getting there etc, put everything into RTV that should was able and yet was dismissed over a comment.
I don’t know the situation of this woman now, but I believe she was suicidal and with good reason. My parents took her home with them and gave the family a meal as she was not stable and they genuinely feared she might harm herself. My parents were even rebuked for doing so.
If she had killed herself, we wouldn’t know and young children would be left with no parent to care for them.
I feel for Howard, but I don’t feel to stop until God tells me to. So far I don’t believe we are at that point.
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Well I have watched it just. The unknown profit has not been named, so what reason do we have to beleive that it was true prophesy. If this Man is so much in touch and cares for Howard, surley He would advise him to repent, change his attitude as this held a backhanded threat once again : Wo betide He or ” She ” . I would say Wo betide all of those at REV TV who continue to not answer perfectly reasonable questions. Wo betide those HOWARD that bear false witness in naming innocent People on air and on FB saying that Muslims and Gays are more decent to them than these so called Christians. I would say Wo betide those who say they are transparent, when they haven’t made clear that their own company 21st TV take the money from aired Ministries that pay. This is nothing at all about olive branches it is about getting those who are doing wrong to turn around, see the error of their ways, repent and be reformed and for God kingdom not to be damaged anymore. Alan Tun has not answered re OB Truck, Trustees havn’t answered any E Mails neither has Howard come to that, never mind sucking up from whoever this Man is , read the E Mails that were sent to you by Sarah and Myself. Would God want no answers , no statements of the questions that have ben asked over and over. This prophesy was in 2008, yet God said He would put a hedge of protection around the Family, would God do this for People involved in play boy clubs etc.
It was in my opinion just another ploy of Howard to threaten People. Jesus would not bow to threats when He spoke the truth. Why not have an open phone in HOWARD not for the E Mails that get sent in puffing you up but for those with questions, no holes barred and complaints. Viewers pay for live shows , you often say how much it al cost yet you and Jeremy had the puff up Mr Conder Show for an hour last week, what happened to preaching the gospel that is what the viewers pay for.
Sorry just its not about olive branches its about Gods Kingdom and true repentance with change of behaviour. Plus of course we had to have the self pity that God also abhors on how HOWARD is getting old and tired and the Devil whispering to kill himself !
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Thank you Sarah Thank you Jam, my heart goes out to ALL
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Thank you Just.
I wish it was simpler and there was an easier route. Xx
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Hi Sarah,
You have been through the awful things,and your family, God will guide your path. I never knew how much you have suffered.May God keep and bless YOU AND YOUR FAMILY.
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Thank you just.
We have all forgiven them, even though they are unrepentant.
The problem is that people will continue to be abused if we do nothing.
What I have written is the tip of the iceberg I’m afraid. There are many more stories that I know of and I’m sure many that I don’t know.
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Do not be taken in by Conder’s rather transparent and pathetic “woe is me” nonsense. He is a devious, manipulative, over controlled individual, and this performance was both to try to garner sympathy, and to make his detractors feel guilty, and, from his perspective, hopefully go away. He is intolerant of criticism and dissension, and treats people with contempt who cross him.
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Thanks for this William. It does seem Howard will go to extreme lengths to get sympathy, including telling lies and talking abut suicide.
Sympathy is not really appropriate as this is very much his own doing.
However I do pitty him as he has dug a very big hole for himself and been enabled by the “yes men” he has surrounded himself with.
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I saw the piece with Howard yesterday trying on the sympathy act, it did not wash with me. As a regular viewer over the past 7 years Howard has done this many times when facing criticism.
Sarah and Sheila, keep up the good work in exposing these people. I was a regular doner of Rev tv even when they moved to Spain for the extra sunshine, but stopped when the CC got involved. I am not happy at the deception with the Building the Foundation and not including all the income.
Howard is looking quite rattled though and very serious, maybe time to bring back the comedy wig.
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Thanks for the support Anonymous.
I’m pleased that you could see through Howard’s act. It’s sad he feels the need to do this kind of thing to gain support.
Re the hair piece… you never know.
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Thank you William and anonymous for the support. So relieved that others can see through Howard on air. Its not easy being the ones to see this through but God would want no less in my opinion.
We are called to stand up for the oppressed and so many have been oppressed by them all including us
Someone has to bring this into the forefront for the sake of Gods Kingdom and Peoples souls
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Someone sent Me this last week, it is very enlightening and I would recommend all to watch it.
://holydesperation.com/hdVideo.php?videoKey=SJVbFC9ODZI&title=The|Fear|Of|God|Has|Been|Lost|In|The|Church
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Gordon Pettie is another who’s on screen, avuncular image is not matched by the somewhat sinister and dismissive nature of some of the e-mails I have received from him. When I wrote to him seeking information about “Dr” Grady McMurtry, he was quite rude and basically told me to get lost. McMurtry is afforded hero status on the channel; Conder continually fawning over him is positively nauseating. As regards McMurtry, the emperor has no clothes.
http://www.ecalpemos.org/2008/12/dr-grady-mcmurtry-what-are-his.html
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Fully agree William. Gordon is very non committal and also rude as you say , He politely tells you to get lost and mind you own business, when that dosen’t work the legal threats come in. So much for their so called transparency. I saw Howard using Grady on the late show on Tuesday, We have Grady with us, so what on a personal level the man bores me so much and I once heard Him say that the book of Job was not about suffering but about creation.
Much better to have used the air time for voice in the wilderness that they promised would increase and increase. It was a really good community of sufferers and caring people alike. People were also saved by that show.
One poor Man whom Jeremy Park reffered to , when the “wonderful” Howard came out of bed to help him when suicidal is still in dire straights a lot of the time, does Howard even contact him now. 700 club took over at the time Voice used to be on. David Winter with ill health and aged used to travel each week for the good and care of others as well, never heard him bemoan that he was old and tired like Howard did on tuesday in the late show, in fact I have got fed up of Howards pity parties over the years of how hard he works at REV TV, no time for anything else. He finds time to play football.
Many Men of his age are carers for sick or disabled wives they get no break 24/7 and struggle for money as well. They don’t live in sunny spain with a good lifestyle and good health and a Wife with good health. Count your blessings Howard, I bet these type of people feel like ending it most days.
Mark the cabbie used to struggle to even get to the studio and go on air some weeks due to his torturous OCD, He felt many times that He couldn’t go on, try having that torture in your mind 24/7 Howard as well. Bring on people with caring hearts, use the viewers paid for air time for the good. Come on back me up Lorna Pettie it was you who once said, donate if only to keep voice on air. Well people have donated what has happened to voice that you wanted on 7 days a week. ?????
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In response to jam or anyon else who has their views, You say we are to love each other, so true the biggest command Jesus gave was to love one another. Do you not see that trying to bring someone to repenetance is LOVE, this is not easy for myself and Sarah, she works very very long hours, I have personal problems and issues myself but this has to be done , otherwise to just leave these people in their sin is the most unloving thing anyone could do. Jesus would not do that, He openly rebuked and called a spade a spade Also the Church withoutout walls carry on being deceived as well, anything hidden in the dark will be brought into the the light and shouted from the roof tops.,. As for forgivness, I would never ever live in unforgiveness but it is cheap grace to just forgive and not see a repentant heart and change of behavoir. Howard gave a so called apology on FB yet still contines to have a go at people on air. Personally I don’t really care what He says about Me as it is lies, its all provable. God knows Me and that is good enough for Me, but to hear harrowing storiesd of others caused by howards abuse of them is all too much, We must stand up for the oppressed and those who may feel unable to do this. I honestly beleive God wants myself and Sarah to continue this until repentance and change of behavoir , statements and truth come about . Accountability and all cover ups cease. We have tried to do this privately for many years to no avail.
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Hello Sheila, I thought that was your goal until recently. However, the longer this goes on, the more vindictive and unloving it looks. How many times did Paul expose the false teachers of his day? It certainly was not a constant action. Christ exposed the Pharisees repeatedly, but He is God and knew everything that was in their hearts. I just wonder how men are to get up when they are constantly beaten down. It no longer looks loving. It looks like a gang beating.
You and many others have exposed Revelation TV. That is to be commended and absolutely needed to be done. The money preachers alone are enough to discredit them, then with everything else brought to light, it is staggering how much they have failed. But how many times do the same failures need to be exposed? I realize that Howard and company are responsible for their own actions, and their actions have been despicable. However, we are all obligated to care for our brothers and even our enemies. We truly are our brothers’ keepers. Fathers are not supposed to provoke their children to anger. I don’t think we should provoke anyone to anger either. Bringing them to repentance is loving. However, I think the way you have gone about this is having the opposite effect. I don’t see Howard repenting, I see him digging in his heels.
When the commission makes its decision, if it does not go as you hope, what then? Where does that leave you? Do you think it leaves you with egg on your face? How many people will feel comfortable hiring you? The danger is coming out of this with a bad reputation and looking like a trouble maker. The consequences could be long lasting and extremely negative. Bitterness and disappointment are hard companions.
I have been on your side all along. It is only since yesterday that my opinion has changed. That is because this has gone on so long it no longer looks like a noble effort. It looks vindictive.
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Hi Jam
I do understand where you are coming from, but would it really be right to allow them to continue to lie and deceive?
They are unrepentant and the bible makes clear that unless they do change their ways, they are lost.
What you say about approach is important. I agree and have been having conversations with the others about the way we need to get them to a less defensive point so they can actually acknowledged their wrong.
The problem is that they are afraid of admitting because there will be consequences, but what they don’t realise is that the consequences of continuing to lie in this way will be far more severe.
Some of the others agree with the idea of a change of approach and some don’t. What I can say is that I personally, am mindful of what you say.
I’m also mindful of the “widows mite” being given due to lies. It has to stop, but I agree there is a right and wrong way to move forwards at this point.
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Sheila/Sarah,
Hold out for a full public apology, you have him worried and rattled.
I stopped giving when I saw a Bob Mitchell blog about Howies.I am sure many others have too as you could see from the studio fund.The fund went to about £700k in a short space (approx 2 months) of time and took about another 4 months to reach £1m. The story of Howies broke in between.
In order to sell air time he needs the viewers and with the donations drying up it will certainly make them consider their position.
The viewers are being deceived and you are doing good work in exposing it, don’t let viewers continue to be duped.
God Bless you both and your families.
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Thank you M.
I was unaware of the significant drop in donations. They must know they cannot keep this up forever.
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Yes thankyou M, Bless you for the encouragement I saw that the money came in pretty quickly to start with they said Gods hand was on it. and then a Friend told Me that it had slowed right down. I think many People stopped their giving following the exposure of Howies and then more recently the CC. REV claimed that People were giving more when the CC came about initially but going on the figures and what Gordon said on time for Revelation they had a short fall, which seemed to have come about since the CC enquiry started.
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Hi jam, Thank you for your input and opinion, could you please define what is vindictive?
You say that only God knows the heart yet you seem in some way to be judging mine. I don’t really know what you mean by people not wanting to hire me, for what. The scripture re Fathers not angering their children is addressed to fathers and children specifically so we cannot assume it means otherwise, but more so, Howard isn’t being provoked to anger, He lives with anger inside him , this is evident form his outbursts to others.
Each person is responsible for their own emotions, reactions and behavoir. No one can cause them to be this way. Scripture says in your anger do not sin, Howard sins with his, does not retract, damages people. Howard has tried of for years to damage my reputation for one reason because I have spoken truth and asked questions. Jesus did not give up on the pharasees, are we not told to become like him. We cannot pick and chose which aspects of Jesus we are to follow. Jesus aim was to save souls , that is our aim both those on REV TV and the followers who will be affected by the leaders behavoir.
I went to God last weekend to ask him of any wrong attitude and ask forgivness for any way I may have dealt with this wrongly and to guide us in all we do. He brought the contents of a book to me which is all based in scripture, I have E Mailed some of this to Sarah for her to look at. The book is about how to deal with sin and unrepentant sin and how Jesus and Paul dealt with it.
We are not doing this aside form God’s input I assure you. If People want to call me a trouble maker that is up to them, after all did they not call Jesus all kinds of names and insult him for doing what was right. Frankly peoples opinions of me don’t matter one bit, I m answerable to God not them. During the past weeks of this I have thought very deeply about what we are doing and on two separate occasions my daily readings have confirmed with scripture on that day I have questioned that this is right. The church in general has become very soft on sin , I did refer to a short video someone sent me (June 24th 9.46) which further more made this the right thing to do. I don’t think Sarah would mind me quoting her yesterday “we will carry on unless God tells us otherwise”. We cannot follow Man’s opinion only God and his word.
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Sarah, I admire your attitude and Christian spirit. Sheila, I don’t mean to judge you. As I have said, I’ve been onboard with the efforts here. I worry about you when this is over if it doesn’t go as you might wish. By vindictive, I mean it seems at times (only at times) that it is the destruction of Revelation TV that is ultimately sought here and not its restoration. What I would like to see from Revelation TV is confession, repentance, and a removal of all money preachers from their channel. I would like them to be the Christian channel that is free of heresy and false doctrine. I thought at one time they could be, but since the whole Jacob Prasch/Jesse Duplantis controversy they have spiraled downward until I can not even bear to watch one second of their programs.
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Thank you Jam.
I too would like to salvage RTV if possible, but repentance also means accepting consequences. For me, I think The Conder family and trustees need to step down. They have committed fraud and have started a hate campaign against those who knew about it. This campaign was started long before Sheila or I went public.
Forgiveness, is already given as far as I’m concerned, but we have to be honest with ourselves. Howard and Co have been fleecing the flock.
Rory Alec recognised the need to step down for a failing in his flesh, which didn’t directly affect God TVs viewers. How much more appropriate would it be for Howard and Co to step down for lying to his viewers and deceiving them out of their cash?
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No need to worry jam about it not going as I want, I only want what God wants My wish like you is to se repentance and a brand new Godly REV TV, simple like it was at the start. Be that with current peoplle or new ones, its all about glorifying God and bring souls to Christ and good solid biblical teaching for Christians Whatever the outcome I know we have tried our best to point things out to REV TV that aren’t right. I have no wish to see the destruction of REV TV at all, but im afraid that is what they are doing to it by one means or another. I aslo know we have to reach as many Viewers as possible who ar eblind to it all.I have never ever wanted its dectruction at all and still don’t . If I had ever wanted that I could have been very public about a lot of things way before now, my concern has always been to protect Gods kingdom. This has ben my motive to speak out to them or ask questions when things have concerned Me.
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I personally knew nothing at all about finances until I read Sarah’s blog, my concerns were over the OB truck not materialising and no real facts on what happened to the ring fenced money. The behaviour of some staff who work for REV TV, photographs and text that could be publicy seen that could have ruined them if the wrong person had got hold of it. Howards bad attitude on air. Some of the ministries they had on. Rudeness to myself from Howard and Leslie on air and then Howard falsley naming me re CC. Not getting answers to perfecetly reasonable questions . Cover ups and lies Re Howies club and now today I have read on another sight that there was a luxury yacht that was purchased and when People in UK found out that was sold, I don’t know if this true but I read it today.
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It’s true Sheila. I hadn’t written about it as I didn’t have the evidence. Interesting development.
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Thank you, Sheila. I’m glad you want restoration and a Godly Rev TV. That is what the “Church Without Walls” needs and deserves.
Sarah, you’re absolutely right. People do need to accept consequences. I don’t know how it should play out. I want God’s will to be done… like the two of you.
There will be consequences on both sides, though. I know you are both aware of this and seem to be willing to accept what the consequences will be for yourselves. However, some of the consequences for others may be more difficult for you to accept.
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Thanks Jam.
Consequences are a difficult one. I do struggle with the thought of what might happen as a result of all this at times. There is a chance that this could have a chain reaction which could end the broadcasting rights for religious groups. I don’t know if that would be a bad thing though.
I had an interesting conversation with Gordon Hudson about a meeting he was involved in regarding Christians having the right to broadcast at the BBC. This was all the way back in the 80s. They concluded that the type of people who would set up these TV stations would be the fringe groups and those with extreme views. This has sadly become the case.
Whilst I strongly believe Christians need to use media to communicate, I’m more in favour of internet based options, which are accessible to everyone. These days you can make a great video on a smart phone and I believe the internet is the way forward. It’s often free and it’s so easy to set up a YouTube channel etc. It is well known that Howard likes to have top of the range equipment, which isn’t always needed and certainly wouldn’t be for a new internet generation of broadcasters. With things like the Roku box gaining popularity, even the older generation are getting more tech savvy.
There has to be a change. As long as there is big money involved in setting up a station, things will always be monopolised by the wrong people.
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